bLaKnI
 
bLaKnI
 
#1 23 abr 11, 22:29
#1 23 abr 11, 22:29

Rumor: la partícula de Dios, ¿finalmente?.



This track is an example of simulated data modelled for the CMS detector on the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at CERN. Here a Higgs boson is produced and then decays into two jets of hadrons and two electrons. The lines represent the possible paths of particles produced by the proton-proton collision in the detector while the energy these particles deposit is shown in blue.


Controversial Rumor that God Particle Has Been Detected
(versión Español "a la Google": http://translate.google.es/translat...l=&ie=UTF-8)

A rumor is floating around the physics community that the world's largest atom smasher may have detected a long-sought subatomic particle called the Higgs boson, also known as the "God particle."

The controversial rumor is based on what appears to be a leaked internal note from physicists at the Large Hadron Collider (LHC), a 17-mile-long particle accelerator near Geneva, Switzerland. It's not entirely clear at this point if the memo is authentic, or what the data it refers to might mean — but the note already has researchers talking.

The buzz started when an anonymous commenter recently posted an abstract of the note on Columbia University mathematician Peter Woit's blog, Not Even Wrong.

Some physicists say the note may be a hoax, while others believe the "detection" is likely a statistical anomaly that will disappear upon further study. But the find would be a huge particle-physics breakthrough, if it holds up.

"If it were to be real, it would be really exciting," said physicist Sheldon Stone of Syracuse University.

Hunting for the Higgs

The Higgs boson is predicted to exist by prevailing particle-physics theory, which is known as the Standard Model. Physicists think the Higgs bestows mass on all the other particles — but they have yet to confirm its existence.

Huge atom smashers — like the LHC and the Tevatron, at Fermilab in Illinois — are searching for the Higgs and other subatomic bits of matter. These accelerators slam particles together at enormous speeds, generating a shower of other particles that could include the Higgs or other elemental pieces predicted by theory but yet to be detected. [Wacky Physics: The Coolest Little Particles in Nature]

The leaked note suggests that the LHC's ATLAS particle-detection experiment may have picked up a signature of the elusive Higgs. The signal is consistent, in mass and other characteristics, with what the Higgs is expected to produce, according to the note.

However, some other aspects of the signal don't match predictions.

"Its production rate is much higher than that expected for the Higgs boson in the Standard Model," Stone told SPACE.com in an email interview. So the signal may be evidence of some other particle, Stone added, "which in some sense would be even more interesting, or it could be the result of new physics beyond the Standard Model."

Too soon to tell

Stone was quick to point out that the note is not an official result of the ATLAS research team. Therefore, speculating about its validity or implications is decidedly preliminary.

"It is actually quite illegitimate and unscientific to talk publicly about internal collaboration material before it is approved," Stone said. "So this 'result' is not a result until the collaboration officially releases it."

Other researchers joined Stone in urging patience and caution before getting too excited about the possible discovery.

"Don't worry, Higgs boson! I would never spread scurrilous rumors about you. Unlike some people," Caltech physicist Sean Carroll tweeted today (April 22).

While it's still early, some researchers have already begun to cast doubt on the possible detection. For example, Tommaso Dorigo — a particle physicist at Fermilab and CERN, which operates the LHC — thinks the signal is false and will fade upon closer inspection.

Dorigo — who said he doesn't have access to the full ATLAS memo — gives several reasons for this viewpoint. He points out, for example, that scientists at Fermilab didn't see the putative Higgs signal in their Tevatron data, which covered similar ground as the ATLAS experiment.

Dorigo feels strongly enough, in fact, to put his money where his mouth is.

"I bet $1,000 with whomever has a name and a reputation in particle physics (this is a necessary specification, because I need to be sure that the person taking the bet will honor it) that the signal is not due to Higgs boson decays," he wrote on his blog today. "I am willing to bet that this is NO NEW PARTICLE. Clear enough?"


fuente: http://www.livescience.com/13853-hi...html?kw=FB_Space
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Pues bien señores, parece ser que es un "rumor" basado en un filtrado de una nota interna proveniente de los chicos del LHC. Se dice pero que aún se está debatiendo...

Todo proviene de un comentario supuestamente anónimo en un blog acerca de dicha filtración. Ahí empieza todo. (http://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/wordpress/?p=3643)

Mucha controversia, muchos científicos completamente en contra...
misma historia, mismos patrones, de nuevo se repite el ciclo.

¿Que pensáis?
  20
JvV
 
JvV
 
#2 23 abr 11, 22:34
#2 23 abr 11, 22:34
Es España, si mi nivel de ingles ya es basto para hablar de comprar tabaco imagínate para esto...
 
urrako
 
urrako
 
#3 23 abr 11, 22:38
#3 23 abr 11, 22:38
Esto es lo que dice Motl en su blog:

If the internal note is authentic, which is extremely likely right now (but of course, it is not an official ATLAS document at this point!), and if the authors avoided silly mistakes and wishful thinking, which is not guaranteed (and it is particularly doubtful for those who doubted the 115 GeV LEP claims, because both claims involve Ms Sau Lan Wu - see her 2002 paper), ATLAS has analyzed 63.5/pb of data from 2010 and 2011 and it has observed a γγ resonance (excess of events with two photons) with a significance of 4 standard deviations - i.e. at the 99.994% confidence level.

The total invariant mass of the would-be particle is 115 GeV - the mass of the hypothetical Higgs boson that, according to ancient Greek legends, the LEP collider in the very same tunnel could have discovered a few weeks before it was shut down a decade ago.

There is a problem, however. If the excess were indeed due to the decaying Higgs bosons, theory predicts that it shouldn't have been seen yet! In fact, the observed cross section (probability of the production of the resonance) is about 30 times greater than the prediction from the Standard Model, assuming that the resonance is the Standard Model Higgs Boson, also known as the Weinberg toilet.

Various models beyond the Standard Model typically increase the discrepancy 30 to an even larger ratio. Some variations of NMSSM - the Next to Minimal Supersymmetric Standard Model - may decrease the multiplicative discrepancy from 30 to a few - by a factor of ten or more - but it may still way too large. See e.g. Ellwanger 2010 for a very suggestive method to increase the diphoton rate in NMSSM by a factor of six.

Of course, it's entirely plausible that the physicists have missed a possibility that the Higgs is at 115 GeV but because of a subtle feature of the particle, such as compositeness (which I don't like but consider it the most obvious example) or extra matter fields beyond the three generations we know, the diphoton decays are far more often than the Standard Model predicts.




Note that according to the graph above, at 115 GeV, only 1/500 of the decays (the fraction is called the branching ratio) of the Weinberg toilet end up with two photons. The two dominant decays are to bottom quark-antiquark pairs and WW pairs, and even decays to tau-antitau, ZZ, and charm-anticharm are far more frequent than the photon pairs.

But because of some unexpected subtleties, Nature may ignore the Standard Model and prefer the decay to photon pairs. After all, the Next to Minimal Supersymmetric Standard Model doesn't have to be the last word. Recall that your neighbor who lives next to you doesn't have to be your best friend; it's often the next-to-next guy who is. ;-)

If you forget about the puzzles about the unexpectedly intense diphoton decays of the new would-be particle, the very mass of the particle would be perfectly consistent with supersymmetry, bringing the embarrassing doomsday closer to the anti-supersymmetric bigots of this world.

115 GeV is primarily the value of the Higgs mass that is overwhelmingly favored by supersymmetry. This point was conveyed extremely convincingly by Cassel et al. in 2010 who showed that the degree of required fine-tuning is dramatically minimized for a 115 GeV Higgs. In their statistical sense, a 115 GeV Higgs boson is the most robust and most accurate prediction of supersymmetry that we can make at the present state of knowledge. And it may be confirmed soon.

I guess that many people are going to think about the ways how to modify the existing models in order to predict much higher diphoton cross sections.

Your humble correspondent has predicted 115 GeV to be the most likely Higgs mass in dozens of contexts, so this blog is full of comments about a 115 GeV Higgs. In particular, I recommend you to reread


What a light Higgs boson would mean for particle physics (July 2010)

If the Higgs discovery is confirmed - and 5 sigma is already collected by now if those 4 sigma were real - it will be exciting, indeed. Theorists will have to struggle to explain the anomalously high diphoton branching ratio. But when those detailed complications are resolve, the LHC will have to work hard to discover the expected particles that really matter

http://motls.blogspot.com/

No sé si habrá algo, podría acabar siendo una ilusión y deberse a mil cosas pero habrá que estar al tanto.
Mensaje editado 2 veces. Última edición 23 abr 11, 22:46
  2
Kb
 
Kb
 
#4 23 abr 11, 22:39
#4 23 abr 11, 22:39
si luego te ponen en la noticia cosas como: too soon to tell, o "I bet $1,000 with whomever has a name and a reputation in particle physics (this is a necessary specification, because I need to be sure that the person taking the bet will honor it) that the signal is not due to Higgs boson decays," he wrote on his blog today. "I am willing to bet that this is NO NEW PARTICLE. Clear enough?"

no entiendo por que la gente quiere dar bombo a cosas no confirmadas
  1
bLaKnI
 
bLaKnI
 
#5 23 abr 11, 22:56
#5 23 abr 11, 22:56
Pues por la "simpleza" de la noticia en si misma, y por la imperiosa necesidad del ser humano a aferrarse a algo, que pueda explicarse en palabras.
Nada mejor que culminar la fusión entre la Fe y la Ciencia, de la mano de la supuesta única solución plausible: Higgs.

¿El bombo y el platillo? Los regalan cuando te sientas a la grada.
  41
PocketAces
 
#6 23 abr 11, 22:58
#6 23 abr 11, 22:58
#1 O traducís hilo & post o este thread lo vais a frecuentar 4 gatos y 1 perro.


¿No os damos penita?
  6
D4rKNiGhT
 
#7 23 abr 11, 23:03
#7 23 abr 11, 23:03
#1 Mas que traducción, se pide un RESUMEN.
  7
Sarken
 
Sarken
 
#8 23 abr 11, 23:06
#8 23 abr 11, 23:06
Traducción, resumen y todo lo que sea posible para los que no seamos einsteins.
 
orggahh
 
orggahh
 
#9 23 abr 11, 23:07
#9 23 abr 11, 23:07
entonces ya estamos muerto?
 
ch3ris
 
ch3ris
 
#10 23 abr 11, 23:09
#10 23 abr 11, 23:09
por el titulo yo diría que han encontrado un trozo de la sandalia de cristo y al hacerle el carbono catorce ha salido que tiene 5000 años
Spoiler

 
urrako
 
urrako
 
#11 23 abr 11, 23:09
#11 23 abr 11, 23:09
Básicamente lo que se dice es que es posible que en ATLAS (un detector del LHC) hayan hallado un posible Higgs supersimétrico a 4 sigmas (y que si llegase a 5 la cosa sería una confirmación casi segura). El caso es que este tipo de Higgs casa bien con cuerdas.
  17
ScOuT
 
ScOuT
 
#12 23 abr 11, 23:09
#12 23 abr 11, 23:09
creo que ni el mismo sabe lo que pone ahí.
 
racCa
 
racCa
 
#13 23 abr 11, 23:15
#13 23 abr 11, 23:15
#12 pos si xDD
 
Nority
 
Nority
 
#14 23 abr 11, 23:16
#14 23 abr 11, 23:16
UUUUUh me encanta el tema #1 . No tengo siquiera tiempo para leerlo, pero en cuanto pueda lo leeré y daré mi opinión.
 
Manorothh
 
online
Manorothh 
 
#15 23 abr 11, 23:34
#15 23 abr 11, 23:34
Esta semana esta el foro interesante con los temas de ciencia, a ver si se pasa nuestro fisico particular mth y nos aclara algo más sobre el asunto.
  14
Sarken
 
Sarken
 
#16 23 abr 11, 23:42
#16 23 abr 11, 23:42
#11 Ah ok ahora lo entiendo todo, piro a cenar.
 
Hipster
 
Hipster
 
#17 23 abr 11, 23:45
#17 23 abr 11, 23:45
#11

Y ese Higgs, para que nos entendamos, es la partícula que en teoría crea partículas elementales.

No sé por qué se habla de Dios, hablemos mejor de Arjé xD
  1
oziRs
oziRs
 
#18 23 abr 11, 23:46
#18 23 abr 11, 23:46
#11 Ahora si joder.
 
DantePD
 
DantePD
 
#19 23 abr 11, 23:47
#19 23 abr 11, 23:47
Para entender de que va todo esto os recomiendo este reciente documental de la BBC

http://youtu.be/62us_JC59HA

Ingles con subtitulos en español (1 solo link)

Esta todo muy bien explicado y con algunos toques de humor.

Lo encontre hace 2 dias en Microsiervos.com
#20 Mensaje ocultado por no cumplir las normas
  5
albertoxxx
 
#21 23 abr 11, 23:52
#21 23 abr 11, 23:52
#20 ademas de payaso retrasado.... aver si te crees que eres el unico que puede leer/compreder en el mundo, venga mamala xulo
Mensaje editado 1 vez. Última edición 23 abr 11, 23:57
 
Carajaulaa
Carajaulaa
 
#22 23 abr 11, 23:57
#22 23 abr 11, 23:57
ESPAÑOOOOLLLL :@
  4
ruge
 
ruge
 
#23 24 abr 11, 00:01
#23 24 abr 11, 00:01
#20 puede que no lo entendamos en inglés pero almenos traducido nos enteraríamos un poco del temita y, gracias a las opiniones/explicaciones de personas tan ilustradísimas como tú, algo aprenderíamos.

#24 bueno, la humildad es una cualidad que no todo el mundo tiene
Mensaje editado 1 vez. Última edición 24 abr 11, 00:38
#24 Mensaje ocultado por no cumplir las normas
  1
Hipster
 
Hipster
 
#25 24 abr 11, 00:09
#25 24 abr 11, 00:09
Queréis dejar de hacer el gilipollas y hablar de quarks y Higgs y su puta madre?


img: http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/ima...scienceshirt.jpg

SCIENCE BITCHES, SCIENCE!!!!!11!!ONE!
  1
X-Crim
X-Crim
 
#26 24 abr 11, 00:15
#26 24 abr 11, 00:15
os lo resumo y traducido va?

resulta que se ha descubierto que la vida se basa en 7 esmeraldas va? pues la particula de Dios es la octava esmeralda (si, yo también me he quedao flipao), y una vez que descubran el origen de la última esmeralda se sabrá el origen de la vida...

LA DECIMA!!!
 
Uneim
 
Uneim
 
#27 24 abr 11, 00:17
#27 24 abr 11, 00:17
#20 A mi, aunque me guste esto, me falta tantísima información que no me entero de nada.

Por ejemplo entiendo lo que supone el resumen de #11 respecto al cambio que daría en las teorías que se manejan ahora (y que conozco), pero al mismo tiempo me nombra "Higgs supersimétrico a 4 sigmas" y yo me quedo con cara de tonto, con una nueva duda ¿qué diferencia hay entre tener ciento número de sigmas? ¿qué es el "sigma"?

Por eso no me gustan este tipo de threads en mediavida, un foro gamer, donde sólo un puñado de personas controlan de ciencia pero siguen abriendo los temas, sin explicarlos para los que, como yo, no tenemos ni idea. (A los thread de T-1000 me remito, donde habla de microbios, antibióticos, bacterias, y empieza a nombrar especies concretas, me pierdo muchísimo.)

Y por eso creo que estos threads, acaban cayendo en el olvido.
 
Draviant
 
#28 24 abr 11, 00:21
#28 24 abr 11, 00:21
Hay gente en paro incapaz de permitirse un curso de ingles...menos con definiciones técnicas que probablemente nunca he oído en mi vida

Vamos, que lo pongais en español y explicado para los que no son físicos coño

En cuanto al resto....mTh yo te invoco!
  5
Kenderr
 
Kenderr
 
#29 24 abr 11, 00:22
#29 24 abr 11, 00:22
Hasta que esto no lo expliquen en un capitulo de The Big Bang Theory la gente no se enterara.
  1
resondual
 
#30 24 abr 11, 00:24
#30 24 abr 11, 00:24
Hombre lo suyo sería que se adapte el hilo al tipo de foro en el que estamos, un foro general, con gente de todos los ámbitos. Así que un resumencito con lenguaje no tan técnico en #1 explicando la cosa sin profundizar mucho para que podamos opinar todos, hubiera estado bien. Mal que le pese al imbécil prepotente reputado astrofísico de #20 .

#19 Gracias por el docu, ahora lo veré.
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