La tercera ola del feminismo se construye con mentiras

Xetloz
#390Noveno:

Lo que tú pienses ahora es irrelevante, lo que funcionaba en el pasado es lo relevante. Y la realidad es que proteger a mujeres y niños era el mejor método para perpetuar la especie y conseguir. Por eso otro tipo de sociedades han ido desapareciendo progresivamente. Porque por mucho que te disguste, hombres y mujeres somos biológicamente diferentes y por ello hemos adoptado roles distintos en la sociedad. Es por ello que es absurdo pretender que haya el mismo número de líderes o de albañiles en la sociedad.

Para terminar la discusión. Según esto, ¿Estas de acuerdo con que la sociedad siga siendo patriarcal, y que existan tales diferencias sociales basándote en pequeñas diferencias biológicas?

2 respuestas
W

#391 Tú lo que quieres es pillarle en un renuncio para tacharlo de machista opresor, está claro.

1 1 respuesta
Xetloz

#392 No se que es un renuncio

B
#391Xetloz:

Para terminar la discusión. Según esto, ¿Estas de acuerdo con que la sociedad siga siendo patriarcal, y que existan tales diferencias sociales basándote en pequeñas diferencias biológicas?

La sociedad debe tener una división de roles en tanto en cuanto los individuos que la forman son biológicamente diferentes. Y con "debe" no me refiero a por imposición social, sino a por imposición biológica (ver paradoja de la igualdad en países nórdicos).

En resumen, que podemos introducir leyes para destruir roles (véase leyes cremallera) o dejar que los individuos se comporten en libertad (véase paradoja de la igualdad).

2 respuestas
_-Dereuda-_

#394 Qué lucha más extraña tienes contra el feminismo macho xD
Te suelo leer en hilos de este estilo y en este mismo apareces desde la página 2. Lo cierto es que das argumentos muy buenos, pero tengo curiosidad, por qué ese ahínco en demostrar que el patriarcado no es lo que dicen? Qué motivos te mueven?

No es una bait ni nada, me interesa de verdad saber por qué esa intensidad.

2 respuestas
W

#395 Quiere reencarnarse en una sexy lesbiana para dominar el mundo.

PD: Yo también quiero.

B

#395 Existe una disonancia entre lo que nos venden los mass media (donde las mujeres poco más que son rehenes de la sociedad) y la realidad (donde las mujeres cuentan con todo tipo de beneficios sociales, legislativos, económicos, etc). Entonces miré quién había detrás empujando esa agenda política y me encontré con el feminismo y el progresismo. Y también de ahí vino mi divorcio progresivo con la izquierda, pero ha sido en buenos términos, no la he denunciado por malos tratos.

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Xetloz

#394 La definición de sociedad no viene dada por nadie, se define a si misma.
Lo cual lleva a pensar si de verdad se puede medir lo "correcto" y lo "incorrecto" de la misma.

Confundes sexo con genero, que yo tenga polla(entre otras cosas) me define como SEXO masculino, pero el GENERO masculino es todo lo cultural y social que se crea artificialmente sobre mi sexo.
ej: "-los niños no lloran", distinción de colores, distinción de gustos por sexo desde pequeño... etc

No hay ninguna razón biológica para que (siempre hablando de generalidades) a los hombres les gusten mas el fútbol que a las mujeres. Por lo tanto esa distinción no me la quieras vender como distinción biológica.

1 respuesta
B

#398 Creo que no he nombrado en ningún momento esa palabra, de todos modos es un tema muy interesante y me encanta rebatir el mito de que el género es un constructo social. Si eso es lo que piensas, inyéctate testosterona unas semanas y cuéntame si tu comportamiento se vuelve más masculino. O al revés, inyéctate hormonas femeninas y cuéntame si empiezas a ser más femenina.

Te dejo aquí la experiencia de un hombre que se sometió a un proceso de cambio de sexo, en su experiencia se puede ver cómo aún siendo un adulto completamente formado su comportamiento se vuelve más femenino por el mero hecho de estar inyectándose hormonas durante unas pocas semanas. Ahora imagínate el resultado de nacer realmente mujer, o realmente hombre, y estar toda tu vida sometido a dosis de hormonas masculinas/femeninas. Como ves es completamente absurdo pensar que el género es un constructo social:

A number of people have asked me to make a post on what gender transition – having female hormone levels, and living in society as a girl – was like.
This is no longer the case, but it is recent enough that I can quite accurately describe the process.
If this experience would be of interest to you then read on.

For the sake of style I’ll adopt a Socratic method, and invent an interlocutor

What led you to wanting to do this and thinking you were a girl?
I could spend many paragraphs answering this, and potentially only scratch the surface. In short the “I feel like a girl” line that gets thrown about so often is largely untrue. More accurate would be “I don’t feel like a guy, and am insecure in my masculinity”. Couple this with symptoms of mental illness – neuroses, isolation, shame, insecurity, lack of social functioning. Coupled with these kind of factors, over time it is very easy to hamster “I don’t feel like a guy” into “I feel like a girl”.

Explain the starting effects that taking estrogen has.
It takes a while for changes to happen… initially it is slow, your sex drive lowers, your skin becomes smooth and feminine, what body hair you have becomes vellus – very thin and light. The way you smell changes, and over time your facial features becomes much more feminine – a friend described this as “It’s like every time I saw you, your features were softer”.
Emotions, unsurprisingly, change a lot. Early on any aggressive tendencies go down… there are periods where you feel emotionally unstable, tearful. On some level you are going through puberty, and this can be off balancing.

And socially? How does that start to change?
Again that is gradual, because of all changes, physical and emotional that you are hyper aware of, you start to think people will notice the small changes In you. They mostly don’t – at first. But over time, as you become more and more feminine looking, people do treat you differently. You start overhearing comments like “Is that a guy or a girl?” “They could easily be a girl…”, people giving you scrutinising stares. At the earlyish stages – when you look very feminine, but do not yet pass as a girl – you can cause cognitive dissonance in others.
People largely, despite what SJW’s or feminism would like, treat guys and girls differently. They have different expectation, understandings, and ways of relating to someone if they are a guy or a girl. Because of this, when people cannot place you, or, even if they know you are a guy, on some level you will seem like a girl. This discrepancy can cause cognitive dissonance. Now this is not true of everyone, I’ve found that some people – and they tend to either be intelligent, or just quite confident and carefree – have little difficulty engaging with someone even if they can’t quite place them, or know exactly how to relate.

Did you get any abuse, or “discrimination”?
In my entire time of this, early stages and beyond, I have not had one instance of actual discrimination. Very very early on a kid did say “Faggot!” to me as I walked in a store. I smiled at him and winked, and he fucked off. Beyond this though zero instances of abuse or discrimination, and I don’t even think that counts”

OK, That’s the start, how does it go from there?
Eventually you get to a point where you are able to pass in society as a girl. People become friendly, engaged and interested in you. Doors get opened asif by magic. I was lucky (or unlucky depending on perspective) in terms of genes and bone structure, and once my hair was long and feminine, could pass as a girl without makeup and in androgynous clothing. Over time your emotions and the way you experience them change significantly. They are more visceral, felt more fully, the highs and lows are stronger.

Because of how vivid and easily swayed your emotions can be, it becomes hard to separate emotional reality from objective reality. Your emotional empathy increases, and you start caring more about the feelings of others, wanting them to feel good about you, and you them. Cultivating a positive atmosphere and relations. Getting a grip over your emotions becomes much harder to do. At one point I was genuinely sure that stoicism was simply something I was no longer capable of.

What about sex and attraction? What was that like before, and did it change?
Before, I was interested in girls. I had some sexual insecurities, but ultimately my sexuality was a male heterosexual one. Over time however this also changed. The way I felt about guys started to differ. The more feminine I looked, and felt, and the more I was relating to people as a girl… the more guys went to being “Other” than me. I started to notice characteristics that I had never paid attention or even thought much about before. Guys posture, muscularity, their confidence with other guys or the way they are with women. Sometimes you will just look at a guy and have “He could do things to me…” thoughts.

Men notice and respond to you differently too. Lots of looking then adjusting hair, sometimes this seems subconscious and just an instinctive thing. Guys start to look you in the eyes more, and smile at you. Or purposeful eye contact, where you can almost feel him taking you in… sometimes a guy can do this in such a way that the dynamic between you, and his intention is so clear, and makes you feel nervous yet also thrilled.

Sex, and sexual feelings also change. The whole aspect becomes far more emotional than physical. Much more about bonding and connecting with someone, sharing something special, than “Im aroused and want to fuck//get fucked”. My suspicion is oxytocin becomes far more involved.

And girls?
Attraction or desire for girls didn’t go, but the effect of hormones is your sex drive mostly goes away, and with it thoughts of wanting to fuck them. That coupled with a change in perspective on how you relate to girls just changes the whole dynamic.

Girls also started to have a change in their attitude, lots of looking and smiling, some give IOI’s (I think girls are not so much unattracted to feminine looks as they are feminine behaviours, and I was attractive, with good posture and social confidence) but some also perceive you as a threat, and do the “glance your way, then brush their hair out with their hand purposefully looking away” thing.

But even with all this, you are still male. Still raised as a guy, with XY chromosomes, sure this may change some things but you can’t just turn into a woman from taking a few pills and changing your socialisation

Indeed. I was not, and did not become a woman. Just as striking as the things that did change are possibly the amount that didn’t change. Intellectually I am and was the same person. My interests in technology, psychology, philosophy, politics and world affairs did not change. The way (most) women talk to each other quite frankly is mind numbingly tedious, and I had little to no interest in engaging in it. My friendships stayed the same, although the way they related to me differed. Many have since told me how surprised they were at how quickly they came to think of me as a girl. After going back to living as a guy they would still use my female name, and “she” etc. for quite a while.

Neither did my sense of humour change at all, apart from possibly liking dark or offensive comedy less than I did.

Another difference I’ve noticed is that women power talk as a default setting. Now I can power talk, and frankly am pretty fucking good at it when I want to, if you want to succeed in this world and see the subtext behind people’s interactions then you need to understand it. But I personally prefer to talk honestly and openly when I can, and when the situation suits. For women this is not the case.

So to surmise, yes estrogen, and living as a girl, has some quite profound effects on your emotions, mentality, sexuality, your body. But that is the extent of it, you are still male, just frankly a very feminised one. My core personality, intellectual self and – now – projection for who I am and who I want to be, remained aligned far more with men than women.

What made you stop, and go back to living as a guy?
This started slowly, you have thoughts like “I am not sure this is right for me”... “I don’t even fully feel like or relate to girls”. Then you get to the "I am not sure this is right for me" stage. And consider the idea that you were mistaken. Try to assess as accurately as you can your psychological state before starting, and you realise "Ok I was mentally not well..". You have a breakdown... not even sure who you are any more... don't feel like a guy at all, but also don't fully feel like a girl... confused, afraid etc.

Eventually you assess it over... get a grip and realise you were mistaken. But then you have this strange situation where your emotional, sexual and mental self are very woman-like. Your recent life experiences are all as a girl. And you are meaning to journey back to being a guy. But you don't really yet feel that way. Estrogen has drastically changed you lots of ways.

From here is where self-improvement – perspective and taking back control over your life come in. Meditation, journaling, pushing yourself outside your comfort zones. Gradually embracing aspects to yourself that are male, minimising or culling submissive, beta traits and encouraging those aspects in you that are confident, assertive, risk-taking, independent.

The stage I am at now is actually one I am sure many here people can easily relate to. A guy setting out to become fucking invincible, self-actualised and a stronger person. My path getting to this point though has been unusual, to say the least.

4 5 respuestas
W

#399 Te has pasado con el ladrillo ¿cuánto más grande más razón tiene el que lo escribió? :ninjaedit:

B

#399 Interesante, creo que acabas de mandar a más de unx a llorxr a unx salx sxgurx.

Xetloz

#399 Tenia entendido que la identidad de genero de un transexual existía ANTES de que empezara a inyectarse hormonas.

B

Es que lo que ella critica es ese falso feminismo, el cual no es sino hembrismo victimista que no busca precisamente la igualdad...en España es una mentalidad que está haciendo estragos, destruyendo familias incluso. Llamadme conspiranoico, pero estoy seguro de que el hembrismo no es sino una manera de desestructurar la sociedad.

1 respuesta
T

#403 Ese falso feminismo viene de perlas para saber quiénes son hombres de verdad y no vaginas con patas capaces de hundir un país con tal de tener sexo.

Cuanto antes se destapen mejor.

1 respuesta
B

#404 Yo sin duda que huyo como alma que lleva el diablo ante feminazis de medio pelo. Aborrezco esa mentalidad. Van de feministas cuando no son más que juguetes en manos de lobbies.

1 respuesta
Xetloz

#405 Es un bait(?)

3 respuestas
minired

#406 si quieres defender el feminismo deberías de diferenciar cuando la gente habla de feministas o misándricas

B

#406 No sé qué es un bait...

Meleagant

#399 Siempre he pensado que defender a los transexuales a la vez que se defiende que psicológicamente hombres y mujeres somos exactamente iguales y las únicas diferencias son imposiciones culturales es un contrasentido.

Si somos iguales psicológicamente, el transexual no debe existir, si reconoces su existencia implícitamente tienes que reconocer las diferencias...

2
BluSpock

1 1 respuesta
B

#410 Gracias, no conocía el significado del término.
#406 No era un bait.

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BluSpock

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GaNDaLFViTi

Por lo que yo se, no todos los hombres generan la misma testosterona, ni todas las mujeres generan la misma progesterona o estrogeno, ya no recuerdo cual es. No creo que puedas afirmar lo que dices en #399, diferentes niveles de ciertas hormonas esta claro que alteran tu comportamiento, no todo es blanco y negro, hay una gran variedad de grises. Teniendo esto en cuenta, no crees que podriamos afirmar que el sexo y el genero suelen estar correlacionados, pero no de manera absoluta?

punkypie

Si algo bueno tiene el feminismo es que en el futuro ningún gato se quedará sin hogar

1 1 respuesta
B

#414 es curioso que adoren a animales propensos a las violaciones grupales.

1 respuesta
Fidelius

#415 No sabia que los animales se otorgaban consentimiento formado antes de sus relaciones sexuales.

¿Podemos estar ante un nuevo nivel de humanizacion de los animales?

Por cierto, un saludito a Noveno y a su reconocimiento de que una sociedad dividida en roles de genero mola.

1 respuesta
B

#416 Otro saludo para ti Fidelius, aunque no hacía falta que viniera yo a decirlo, con observar lo que pasa en los países nórdicos y su "paradoja de la igualdad" era suficiente. Confío en ti y en tus círculos feministas para que sigan luchando por revertir la naturaleza y diseñar una sociedad uniforme a su gusto ¡Un abrazo!

Fidelius

#417 Apelar a la "naturaleza humana" a estas alturas de la pelicula me sabe tan viejo y de "sir" britanico de club de caballeros que resulta abominable.

Como podría ser que la misma naturaleza humana que admitia la homosexualidad entre varones en las ciudades estado griega despues fuese tajantemente homofoba mas tarde.

Lo llamaremos la "paradoja de la naturaleza humana variable en funcion de la sociedad".

1 respuesta
B

#418

Apelo a la evidencia científica, apelo a la diferencia biológica entre hombres y mujeres, apelo al empirismo, a la demostración por parte de los países nórdicos que cuanto más libre es el individuo más tiende en una dirección condicionado por su sexo.

Tú sigue apelando a la fé de que como hombres y mujeres somos iguales (falso) la sociedad y sus roles deberían estar repartidos uniformente (cielos, qué estúpido suena escrito, hay que tenerlos grandes para defender esta memez).

Nujabes

Antes que nada, decir que el feminismo es necesario.
Pero vengo a deciros que voy a presentar un trabajo sobre Violencia familiar, en este caso cuando los maltratados son ellos, en una clase donde el 95% son mujeres incluyendo el profesorado. Ya os contaré si voy a Junio o no.

1 respuesta

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