Upcoming Nidalee Gameplay Update

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Hey guys,

As you may or may not be aware of to this point, we’ve been pretty hard at work trying to address some problems we’ve identified with Nidalee’s gameplay.

Nidalee’s current pattern of nuking from very long range and being uncatchable is problematic for the game. It creates scenarios where there is no reasonable strategy that can be used to beat her, and it edges out most of the interactive gameplay we try to encourage. While working on her, we definitely want to make significant balance changes to Javelin Toss and her overall escapability, but we also want to make a more complete shapeshifting character that uses both forms in most of its success cases. That being said, Nidalee is a pretty cool character, and we don’t want to necessarily rebuild her from the ground up. In light of this, none of her abilities will be replaced by completely new ones, but playing as and against her will definitely be a different experience.

Before we get too far into this, please understand that we are still making minor tweaks and balance changes and that some of this (particularly the numbers part of it) is still SUBJECT TO CHANGE!!! With that out of that way…

Probably the two biggest changes to the character are her Cougar kit and her character passive. Aspect of the Cougar will now have 4 ranks and automatically be trained at level 1, and its Pounce and Swipe abilities will direct toward the player’s cursor. As for her passive, it reads close to the following:

This naturally leads to a few questions:
How big is X%?

 [i]This is a balance decision that will continue to be sorted out up to her release, but we want there to be a very meaningful difference between pursuing and fleeing as Nidalee.[/i]

How large is “a large radius” actually going to be in game?
Since this is another variable that is still open to balance tuning, we’re not settled on a final value, but we’d like it to give her interesting ways to approach fights.

And most interestingly, how are her Cougar abilities enhanced?

   Takedown: using Takedown on a Hunted target causes it to deal increased damage to the target.
   Pounce: can be used to jump to Hunted enemies at about double its normal range.
   Swipe: using Swipe on a Hunted target resets Pounce’s cooldown to a set value if it is currently above that value.
    Aspect of the Cougar: as a Cougar, Nidalee gains vision of all Hunted enemies.

Moving through brush increases Nidalee’s Movement Speed by 10% for 2 seconds, increased to X% toward visible enemy champions in a large radius. Hitting enemy champions with Javelin Toss and Bushwhack causes her to Hunt these targets for 3 seconds, granting Prowl’s increased Movement Speed toward them and enhancing the first of each of her Cougar abilities against them.

In addition to these changes, there are numbers changes across the kit. Significant examples include, but may not be limited to:

Javelin Toss:
Base damage and Ability Power ratio reduced
Cooldown scales down with rank in Aspect of the Cougar (R)
Applies the Hunt debuff to enemy champions

Bushwhack:
Cooldown and Mana Cost reduced dramatically
No longer shreds Armor and Magic Resist
Applies the Hunt debuff to enemy champions, and deals the trap’s damage over its duration
Now only affects 1 target per trap

Primal Surge
Base healing and Ability Power ratio adjusted

Aspect of the Cougar
Now has 4 ranks and is trained with a point at level 1
No longer passively grants 20 Movement Speed
Cooldown scales down with rank
Cougar ability base damages and scalings adjusted across the board

Takedown
Now fully deals magic damage and has an Ability Power ratio in addition to its Attack Damage ratio and missing Health scaling
Deals increased damage to Hunted targets

Pounce
Now targets toward the player’s cursor
Can be used to Pounce to targets at increased range
Cooldown increased
Killing a unit resets Pounce’s cooldown to a set value if it is currently above that value

Swipe
Now targets toward the player’s cursor
Swiping a Hunted target resets Pounce’s cooldown to a set value if it is currently above that value

Follow-up:

About Ruining AD/Bruiser Nidalee...

A lot of people seem to be concerned about AD or bruiser Nidalee no longer being possible. I think it's because of Takedown dealing magic damage and having an Ability Power ratio. I should mention that the Ability Power ratio is in addition to the current Base+TotalAD damage paradigm. If the concern is just about dealing full magic damage and that will ruin her in top lane, then that's something I'll want to give consideration to. The original post above has been edited to reflect that this ability, outside of switching damage types, is only seeing gains.

About Pounce and Swipe targeting...

Truthfully - and as a Nidalee player myself - I held off on changing her cougar targeting for a long time as we began to explore the character. However, when I finally did, it felt better not only to new Nidalee players, but to experienced ones as well. It took a game or two to adjust to, and ever since it's just much easier to control. I guess it's one of those things that you'll just need to take my word for until you get your hands on it, but I'm pretty sure you'll agree at that time, even if it takes a game or two to adjust to. Also, there's some scripting logic in there so that she still pounces straight forward when your cursor is far from her (for example, Pouncing back to lane).

About Nidalee being too squishy to ever go into melee...

If it ultimately proves true that she just dies too much, this is a problem that we can solve. We could give her resists in Cougar, or while Hunting, or just higher base stats. We could give her high base damages so that she can afford to build a bit tankier. Being too squishy to be a melee character is solvable.
To clarify on the Cougar bonuses against Hunted targets...
The first of all three abilities is enhanced for each Hunt application on an enemy champion. So... the first Takedown, the first Pounce, and the first Swipe all are enhanced. An enemy will have to be hit by another Javelin Toss or run over another Bushwhack trap to get these bonuses against them again.

For Nidalee players worried about me gutting Nidalee...

I hear you on this concern. I mained Nidalee all of last season as well, and she's still one of my favorite champions. I know we haven't hit the balance mark on our last few champion updates on release, but I think we've learned enough from them to not make that mistake again. One of the great things about making these changes is that we can tune things to where they can feel satisfying and powerful in ways that are reasonable, with her engaging in proper risks and having incredible success cases. I'm really open to feedback that is well thought out and explained, because it's important to me that she's a blast to play following any changes made, so keep it coming! :)

Menudo cacho de rework se va a comer si esto sale a la luz.

A grandes rasgos, puedes transformarte en tigre desde level 1, ratios de javalina y curar reducidos...

carmelomvp

Adios a la nidalee ap y manera distinta de jugar a la ad. No se que tal estara.

K

el tener gato a lvl 1 y que la w salte donde tengas el cursor va a compensar todos los nerfs xd

lo que va a meter la q de gato puede ser interesante.

ManuCortex

Nerf a la AP, bufazo a la AD (?)

1 respuesta
keygy

#4 que iban a nerfear las lanzas de Nida lo sabia to kiski eso y el heal, ahora veremos en cuanto se quedaran.

Si bajan los ratios de ap de la lanza espero que bajen el cd o le bajen el mana y ya veremos como queda su forma cougar, si la buffan puede estar interesante.

Brago

Pero si no me equivoco la Q de tigre de nida ahora escalara ap

Lenix

Ya nerfearon el heal hace mucho tiempo, veamos que tal.

ManOwaR

La lanza de nida, entre el rango, el daño que hace y la hitbox rara que tiene es de lo más retard que hay en el juego. No hace falta que le bajen el CD si la nerfean, ya estará bien como la dejen si mantiene el mismo rango. Además que seguro que se vuelve a ver en jungla con esos cambios.

marveen

Buff a la AD? Que habéis leído vosotros ? XD

personaje

Nerf a CLG

Ahora si que no vamos a volver a ver a HSGG en competición

1 respuesta
B

Bueno gente se cierra el ciclo de nerfeos, esto es cmo la F-1 y los doblados, Nidsalee ahora tendra un nerfeo de desventaja. Me acuerdo hace unos 3 meses que Nidalee era la puta mierda. Todo el mundo nerfead, so Nidalle tier 1. Ahora otar vez OP.

A quien le toca la semana que viene en la rotacion de nerfs? Fizz posiblemente no?

3 1 respuesta
Atheron

Que puta manía tienen de tocar a los putos campeones cuando están bien.

3 1 respuesta
keygy

#12 "bien" y "nidalee" no son 2 palabras que conjunten xD.

6
patufet

#10 HSGG tiene una LB mejor que la de Faker.

slakk

Saltar donde tengas el cursor?
My body is ready.

2
Sphere

Con tantos cambios continuamente este juego marea. Que se dejen de toquetear champs que están bien y comiencen a sacar más, que su ritmo de creación para algo que no sea skins ha caído en picado.

2 respuestas
keygy

#16 precisamente es lo que le da vidilla al juego.

H

#16 Paradojicamente ha ciado en picado mientras que sus recursos para crear campeones han subido.

Nidalee no esta rota, la lanza esta muy OP, cierto, pero es lo ÚNICO que tiene Nidalee para hacer daño, porque el gato para hacer daño se usa en situaciones muy concretas.

Marjoram

Por fin se reducen los ratios de la Q y la E, dios, que agonía de campeón xd

B

#11 de los mejores comentarios que he visto, aquí los héroes no es que destaquen o encajen en el metagame, se juegan los que menos nerfeos hayan recibido, maokai ap que ahora es basura, en cuanto nerfeen a todos los ap's de aquí a 2 años será op

1 respuesta
GuilleMagico

#20 yo juego a maokai AP en 3x3 y para mí es god tier xD. Lástima que no rente igual en 5vs5 :(

Jhosan

Pues vaya cagada, para mi nidalee esta bien, lo que pasa que la peña no quiere andar eskivando lanzas asi ke... Mejor la nerfeamos.

2 2 respuestas
ivi14

#22 no, yo te dodgeo 99 de 100 lanzas porque soy un pr0 pero cuando tiene un azul o/y un cáliz da igual porque a la 100 me dará

eimdal

No jodais, Nidalee esta rotisima, puedes fallar 10 lanzas seguidas mientras intentas tirar una torre y con solo dar 1 el otro equipo ya esta jodido, y la cura en late es absurda.

1 respuesta
avisneox

El cambio a la Q es algo ilógico, cómo te itemizas ahora contra nidalee bruiser?

keygy

#24 basicamente esto, si te meten en torre con una nida en el equipo contrario, estas fuked hacia arriba, si te pokea un ziggs jode, pero es mas predecible, pero nida..es un GG como una casa.

B

Pero luego me decian de todo por decir que el daño de la lanza era absurdo, pues toma, tragad.

D

pues yo no se que hablais de op pero yo prefiero que me pokee una nidalee a un ziggs que con las bombitas pequeñas te jode media lane y con las otras skills simplemente tiene que tirarlas al hueco que sobra...

por no hablar de que nidalee tiene que estar a mucha distancia para que te haga daño y ziggs te quita lo mismo desde cualquier distancia.

si tienes una nidalee en frente solo tienes que iniciar antes de que algun noob de tu equipo se coma una lanza y pierde la mitad de su potencial.

1 respuesta
Jhosan

Para mi igual, prefiero una nidalee a que me pokee un ziggs. Y si estais en torre esperando a que falle 99 lanzas y te de 1, eske o vais perdiendo y no teneis nada k hacer o simplemente mereceis perder.

keygy

#28 Nida/karma/caitlyn a ver si tienes eggs a salir de torre con esos 3, esta claro que el counter a setups de poke es hacer engage pero si te saben pokear de torre no sales.

1

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