Recomendaciones de ratones

#15243 lo único que me viene a la mente remotamente parecido es el Kone Pro de Roccat, o incluso el g502 de logi o Basilisk de Razer.

Pero con ese presu vas demasiado ajustado la verdad, dudo que ninguno de estos te entre ahi salvo que tires de segunda mano.

#15245 yo también estoy totalmente en contra de pagar las salvajadas que cuestan algunas marcas y modelos hoy en dia (+100€ o +150), pero por suerte hay opciones decentes por 40-50€, y mas ahora con las opciones chinas que estan saliendo al mercado para hacer competencia.

Que al final cada uno tiene su presupuesto y su limite y no hay nada malo en ello, pero si es algo que vas a estirar varios años gastarte 40€ en algo decente no lo veo descabellado.
Porque esos que rondan los 10 o 20€ como el que has puesto tendran mil y un problemas de latencias, desviaciones de dpi, sensor, etc.. Ya sean enfocados a oficina o juegos.

Ahora que me acuerdo, echale un ojo a este
https://www.amazon.es/SteelSeries-62533-PERIPHERIQUE-Gaming-STEELSERIES/dp/B09N4YN1H6/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?crid=IHN031NR9KIF&keywords=Prime%2Braton&qid=1687038144&sprefix=prime%2Braton%2Caps%2C154&sr=8-5&th=1&psc=1
El bundle son 30€ pero si no lo cambiaron puedes devolver el bungee y quedarte el raton por 15€
Y va a ser algo de mejor calidad que las otras opciones que te planteas, aunque la forma sea algo diferente.

Y lo del boton derecho de tu ratón si no funciona porque es el interruptor lo que esta jodido, que sepas que puedes comprar un interruptor en aliexpress igual por 1€ o asi y cambiarselo soldando.
Pero bueno que despues de tantos años con él quizás es mejor que le dejes paso a otro nuevo xD

Buenas!
Estoy buscando un raton nuevo para shooters,vengo de un razer viper rz0255
presupuesto unos 100€ y uso un palm grip.Estoy mirando las 2 opciones con cable o sin cable.

#15249 Joder, yo tuve inalámbricos buenos en su época y precisamente jugnado shooters, es un horror, en cuanto te fallen las pilas/batería un poquito es una mierda. Yo desde luego para gaming jamás tendría inalámbrico.

#15243 con ese precio y para no jugar, con una forma "parecida" (digo parecida porque ese tipo de forma no se hace ya xd) búscate algo de mars gaming o así que tienen en amazon prime a punta pala y son baratos.

https://www.amazon.es/stores/page/05FCCF35-5392-40D6-9E90-BE4D5A0D8D79?ingress=0&visitId=13c63276-d0b7-493b-996c-47537dd32a66

#15257 no, pero diría que es amazon quien debería tramitar la garantía. El primer quote es algo que te aparece en la seccion de pedidos o te lo ha dicho alguien de soporte? abre chat y pregúntales.

chief blurbuster hablando de ratones

mouse jitter can kill 120-vs-240 Hz differences, so try to use a 2000Hz pollrate or even 4000. Most new mouse sensors supporting 2000Hz pollrates, does a sublime job at 3200dpi in System Shock -- and high-DPI really makes a difference in jitter-reducing the slow mouse turns more common in solo games (unlike fast flick turns). The ability to mouselook around (while eyetracking the mouselook) and see motion blur reduction benefit of high-framerate high-Hz OLED, is a pretty neat experience. You can use mouse software to lower DPI when exiting to desktop. High-hz and high-dpi really dejitters the mouseturnfeel in certain games like System Shock when it comes to the fast GtG of OLEDs. 120-vs-240 is more visible with 2000Hz mouse poll rate (research paper confirmed).

The slow-mouselook dejitter technique to go is "high pollrate, high dpi, low in-game sensitivity".

Otherwise, if you do not control your jitter properly, then 120-vs-240 is not night and day -- jitter of any form can pretty much ERASE the difference between 120-vs-240!!! So that's why I post the jitter-free System Shock settings above.

But 2000Hz did improve System Shock mousefeel for me (it might not for you -- but at least give it a try). As the game is able to successfully spray framerate out of the wazoo, its minimum system requirement being a GTX 670, which means lots of headroom to perform fantastically on modern RTX cards, and respond above-average to jitter optimizations. The developers clearly optimized it to be framerate-futureproof, so it scales really well with jitter optimizations.

In a motion-clarity priority POV, rather than latency POV, jitter optimizations are quite important. When you're prioritizing on motion clarity (as being more important than latency) for solo gameplay, then looking at all the jitter causes is valid. 8000 Hz is much more problematic, but some games perform really well with 2000 Hz, so that tends to be the sweet spot.

Even high-frequency jitters (70 jitters/sec at 360fps 360Hz) is still problematic even if mostly 'invisible'. It is simply extra motion blur (like a fast-vibrating music string), ala the sample and hold stutter-to-blur continuum (TestUFO demo, watch 2nd UFO for 30 seconds as it accelerates/decelerates in frame rate). Notice how the stationary vs moving UFO looks very different! So, whether you have 20 jitters/sec of 100 jitters/sec or 200 jitters/sec -- it's degrading your motion quality. Low-frequencies will vibrate (like a bass music string), while high-frequencies adds extra persistence blur (like a high-frequency music string that just looks blurry when it vibriates).

Just as you saw with UFO looking different in the above link depending on stationary-vs-moving eye -- there are 4 image/motion quality factors to be concerned about:

1. Stationary eye, stationary image (e.g. staring at a photograph or while standing still in game)
2. Moving eye, stationary image (e.g. moving enemy on a stationary background)
3. Stationary eye, moving image (e.g. background images panning past as you stare at crosshairs)
4. Moving eye, moving image (e.g. eyetracking during a pan / scroll / slow turn / slow mouselook)

Jitter optimization has the biggest effect on item #4. Not everyone notices (e.g. people using item #3 almost exclusively -- e.g. stationary stare at CS:GO crosshairs), but my eyes are all over the screen in certain games like System Shock. When you're immersing yourself in a gigantic screen and you're sitting real close (18"-20") which means a 45" screen covers literally almost 90 degrees of your FOV -- your eye habit has a tendancy to just "follow the panning / turning / scrolling" -- too much motion blur can create a motionsickness situation (motion blur sickness is a more common ailment in VR, but also affects today's modern increasingly large monitors). Remember this jitter-as-blur mainly affects situation (4) and different games will behave differently, with your eye habits behaving differently.

Remember, back in the 1024x768 XGA days when you were using your favourite CRT on your 3dfx Voodoo2 SLI in year 1999 -- yes, 4000 pixels/sec wasn't eyetrackable. But in today's 4K-wide displays like the 45" 240Hz OLEDs -- 4000 pixels/sec takes 1 second to cross from left edge to right edge. 1 millisecond error at 4000 pixels/sec is a 4-pixel offset (in jitter error). Now if you vibrate that 70 times a second (beyond flicker fusion), that's 4 extra pixels of motion blur added to whatever MPRT and GtG you have! So -- see! -- those milliseconds matters even more up the diminishing curve of returns, if you're motion-quality priority in today's "simultaneous resolution+refresh rate insanity". The human-visibility noisefloor is pushed down to tinier milliseconds with 4K-wide fast-GtG high-Hz high-framerates.

Trying to linearly scale the refresh rate race (120-vs-240) as an exact 2x motion clarity improvement -- requires you to halve all your error margins (GtG / jitter / etc) while also simultaneously doubling your frame rate. (Or better yet, 4x improvements, since geometrics are more human visible, ala 60-vs-240, or 240-vs-1000, but you need to quadruple your frame rate and quarter your error margins including GtG and jitter). Otherwise anything (slow GtG, jitters, etc) can throttle Hz differences. I'm not much of a fan of refresh rate incrementalism for that reason too (e.g. 240Hz vs 360Hz LCD is a 1.5x difference throttled to 1.1x difference due to slow GtG and jitters). But with OLED, the fast GtG means the refresh rate race can scale more linearly -- if everything else is controlled.

1ms random jitter (worsened by system inaccuracies) in a 4ms MPRT is very borderline visible, as a _25% worsening in motion quality (ratio of jitter:MPRT). Usually jitter (in milliseconds error) bigger than MPRT (in milliseconds) is when it starts becoming bothersome (jitter=MPRT in milliseconds it can actually halve motion clarity). But as soon as jitter becomes half of MPRT, it starts (barely) throttling the motion clarity, and when jitter (in ms) exceeds MPRT (in ms). The MPRT(100%) of 120fps OLED is 1/120sec = 8.33ms, and the MPRT(100%) of 240fps OLED is 1/240sec = 4.16ms.

Now, if you whac-a-mole all the worthy jitter error margins, you can have significant net motion clarity improvements (e.g. 50%+ clearer motion) if you peel/solve as many layers as possible off the jitter onion. Doing this boring optimization on a non-strobed LCD doesn't improve as much due to the slower GtG, but the ultrafast GtG of OLEDs amplifies the visibility of jitter and stutters (even the fast GtG is why 60fps perfect-framepaced looks more stuttery on OLED than it does on LCD -- and why you ideally want to go well beyond 60fps when playing on OLEDs if you hate jitter/stutter). So it is more worthy to optimize jitter when you're playing in the 200fps+ stratospheres on a 240Hz+ OLED.

If you are motion-quality priority, it's always good to bump pollrate up a notch if the game and the system can handle and benefit from it. It won't help all games, but it clearly helps some, even with MouseSync enabled. Test your pollrate for specific games and go to the highest that the specific game feels smooth at. 500Hz works best in some games, but 2000 Hz works best in other games. You can use mouse-profile switching on a per-app basis.

a comprar ratones de 4000hz, todo lo demás a la basura xD

Para los plebs que seguimos en 144hz podemos seguir tirando con 1kHz

#15261 pero mi pro favorito que tiene suerte de no cagarse encima mientras juega, usa 400dpi!111

Yo el problema que le veo a altos DPI, es que ni un solo juego implementa sensibilidad en cm/360, que es una regla de 3 y aun así no lo meten, pero es que lo que es peor, el 90% ni siquiera te dejan meter a mano números palo 0.0001, te ponen un slider con 10 ticks y el tick más bajo de todos hace que a 800 dpi des 400 vueltas en 5cm de movimiento. Eso cuando te dejan usar raw input y no te meten entre medias smoothing forzado o alguna aceleración

Es bastante lamentable el estado en el que se encuentra el tema de marras

#15262 también hay stutter, menos notorio, pero como poco se debería activar motion sync

#15263 jitter es cuando una señal eléctrica no es constante en el tiempo y tiene fluctuaciones, en el ratón eso conlleva tener stuttering visual

#15265 afecta en todos, pero cuanto mayor es la tasa de refresco, más notorio se hace el problema.